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. >> if republicans do not agree to that, is the administration prepared to go over the fiscal cliff in. >> absolutely. there's no prospect to an agreement that doesn't involve those rates going up on the top 2% of the wealthiest. it's only 2%. >> i want to bring in "usa today" bureau chief and welcome to both of you. where are we in these negotiations, susan? >> i think the most encouraging thing was they agreed to the to characterize the phone call. the last time around the characterization of the phone call became a controversy in itself. i think it's pretty clear that the white house and republicans think the white house hand on this is strengthening. we see the polls that you mention, pew polls this week say americans trust the president more, assume if a deal is not reached -- trust the white house more, think if a deal isn't reached it, will be the fault of republicans and it is in fact easier for democrats to go over the fiscal cliff than it is for republicans because then all those tax cuts from the republicans are swept away. but it's too early. it's only december 6. we've
. >> if republicans do not agree to that, is the administration prepared to go over the fiscal cliff in. >> absolutely. there's no prospect to an agreement that doesn't involve those rates going up on the top 2% of the wealthiest. it's only 2%. >> i want to bring in "usa today" bureau chief and welcome to both of you. where are we in these negotiations, susan? >> i think the most encouraging thing was they agreed to the to characterize the phone call. the last...
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. >> if republicans do not agree to that, is the administration prepared to go over the fiscal cliff? >> oh, absolutely. again we see there's no agreement that done involve those rates going up on the top 2% of the wealthiest. remember it's only 2%. >> former senator alan simpson, co-founder of the fix the debt campaign, choice words and analysis for would-be cliff jumpers. >> when you have leaders of parties and people from the administration saying, i think it will be to the advantage of the democrats to go off the cliff, wealthy it will be advantage to the republicans to go off the cliff or the president to go off the cliff, that's like betting your country. there's stupidity involved in that. this is big-time stuff. >> surprising exactly no one, senator mitch mcconnell took to the senate floor yesterday to blast the administration strategy as a campaign maneuver. >> incredibly, many top democrats, including the president, seem perfectly happy, perfectly happy, to go off the cliff. >> but in a new quinnipiac poll out today, the american public gives the democrats the benefit of the
. >> if republicans do not agree to that, is the administration prepared to go over the fiscal cliff? >> oh, absolutely. again we see there's no agreement that done involve those rates going up on the top 2% of the wealthiest. remember it's only 2%. >> former senator alan simpson, co-founder of the fix the debt campaign, choice words and analysis for would-be cliff jumpers. >> when you have leaders of parties and people from the administration saying, i think it will be...
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you guys are willing to go off the fiscal cliff? >> it republicans are not willing to let rates go back up, and we think they should go back to the clinton levels, a the a time when the american economy was doing exceptionally well, then there will not be an agreement. >> while geithner was drawing a line in the sand, house speaker john boehner was busy trying to lift his jaw off the flar after geithner presented the president's debt reduction plans to him last week. >> i was just flabbergasted. i looked at him and said you can't be serious. i have just never seen anything like it. >> yes, indeed, it seems that republicans are not quite sure what to make of the president taking a harder line across the bargaining table. >> you know, the president's idea of a negotiation is roll over and do what i ask. >> i think we're going over the cliff. it's pretty clear to me they made a political calculation. the president's plan is just, quite frankly, a joke. >> i'm not sure about that, senator graham, but there will be plenty of time for jok
you guys are willing to go off the fiscal cliff? >> it republicans are not willing to let rates go back up, and we think they should go back to the clinton levels, a the a time when the american economy was doing exceptionally well, then there will not be an agreement. >> while geithner was drawing a line in the sand, house speaker john boehner was busy trying to lift his jaw off the flar after geithner presented the president's debt reduction plans to him last week. >> i was...
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the "news nation" is following where things regard right now with the fiscal cliff and there's hot rhetoric to go around. >> our members believe strongly that raising tax rates will hurt the economy. closing loopholes, especially on those who are wealthy, is a better way to raise this revenue. >> in order for us to raise the amount of revenue that's needed just by closing deductions and loopholes for high earners we'd have to, for example, eliminate or severely cap the char itible deduction. >> an obsession to raise taxes not going to solve the problem. what will solve the problem is doing something about the entitlements, taking on the wasteful spending in washington. >> and meantime, "the new york times" jonathan wiseman reports behind the scene republican leaders are considering the president's plan to extend middle class tax cuts now an address the debt and spending in the new year. here's republican senator tom coburn on "morning joe." >> actually, i would rather see the rates go up than the other way and greater chance to broaden the base in the future. >> do something, a down payment
the "news nation" is following where things regard right now with the fiscal cliff and there's hot rhetoric to go around. >> our members believe strongly that raising tax rates will hurt the economy. closing loopholes, especially on those who are wealthy, is a better way to raise this revenue. >> in order for us to raise the amount of revenue that's needed just by closing deductions and loopholes for high earners we'd have to, for example, eliminate or severely cap the...
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the timing is interesting, obviously, just as we're learning that fiscal cliff negotiations are now a party of two, the president and the speaker. the "new york times" reporting that house speaker john boehner wants to speak only to president obama out of public view. though we've just learned that boehner is holding a news conference at 11:00 this morning eastern time. the fight, though, still very public. vice president joe biden is meeting with a middle class family. and yesterday president obama met with a virginia family. tax hikes for the rich are nonnegotiable. >> just to be clear, i'm not going to sign any package that somehow prevents the top rate from going up for folks at the top 2%. but i do remain optimistic that we can get something done that is for families like this one. >> joining me now is barry, msnbc political contributor and editor for grio. hello, guys. >> perry, i'm wondering if these new unemployment numbers add to the president's leverage? >> i think they do. the big thing is the election. but the jobs numbers suggest that the economy is doing well and it cuts
the timing is interesting, obviously, just as we're learning that fiscal cliff negotiations are now a party of two, the president and the speaker. the "new york times" reporting that house speaker john boehner wants to speak only to president obama out of public view. though we've just learned that boehner is holding a news conference at 11:00 this morning eastern time. the fight, though, still very public. vice president joe biden is meeting with a middle class family. and yesterday...
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going off that fiscal cliff. to this point most of the conversation has been focused on what happens in january, and for good reason. there's no deal in congress. tax rates go up for a lot of folks, all americans. and a $1.2 trillion worth of defense and spending cuts will be automatically enacted. excuse me, that fiscal cough i told you about. the alternative minimum tax kicks in and put it all together and the results are pretty. the economy would contract by half a percent in 2013. unemployment would raise to 9.1% and the economy would experience what cbo said would be judged as a recession. but after that, then things start to look pretty good. the cbo says after next year by the agency's estimates economic growth will pick up. the labor market will strengthen returning output to its potential level. 5.5% by 2018. essentially if no deal is struck, the federal government would be forced to do what it's refused to do willingly, make dramatic changes in taxes and spending. if those changes happen automatically,
going off that fiscal cliff. to this point most of the conversation has been focused on what happens in january, and for good reason. there's no deal in congress. tax rates go up for a lot of folks, all americans. and a $1.2 trillion worth of defense and spending cuts will be automatically enacted. excuse me, that fiscal cough i told you about. the alternative minimum tax kicks in and put it all together and the results are pretty. the economy would contract by half a percent in 2013....
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cliff stalemate started. no deal until republicans drop the opposition to raising tax rates on the wealthy. that's the president's message. we'll play the interview for you, parts of it, and also hear from democratic congressman adam schiff. from the president shooting down speaker boehner proposal to now conservative groups going aafter him, who are boehner's allies at this point. where is governor jan brewer. the mystery about the out of state business trip and why his own spokesperson says he can't disclose where she is. bp has paid over twenty-three billion dollars to help those affected and to cover cleanup costs. today, the beaches and gulf are open, and many areas are reporting their best tourism seasons in years. and bp's also committed to america. we support nearly 250,000 jobs and invest more here than anywhere else. we're working to fuel america for generations to come. our commitment has never been stronger. now we need a little bit more... [ male announcer ] at humana, we understand the value of
cliff stalemate started. no deal until republicans drop the opposition to raising tax rates on the wealthy. that's the president's message. we'll play the interview for you, parts of it, and also hear from democratic congressman adam schiff. from the president shooting down speaker boehner proposal to now conservative groups going aafter him, who are boehner's allies at this point. where is governor jan brewer. the mystery about the out of state business trip and why his own spokesperson says...
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we go over the fiscal cliff rates reset under bill clinton and you're negotiating a tax cut not a tax increase. other thing the way weight of public opinion since that level has moved strongly against republicans. look who the public says they're going to blame if we go over the cliff, it's republicans because they see them as having forced the issue last time around, been willing to do this this time around. one reason boehner is grumbly and nervous because he doesn't have any leverage. >> i want to point this out. this is interesting in terms of the smoke and mirrors how this will play out for the republicans. in the "wall street journal" they write obama's flexible on highest tax rates. white house's flexibility, described by bowls, confirmed by the administration officials, could envision tax rates -- tax rate increase from the current level but was less than clinton era levels. if the republicans can say, we cut taxes from where they were under clinton it gives them cover though rates may go up. a weird, if there is an act of kabuki theater that would be it, right. >> i see a par
we go over the fiscal cliff rates reset under bill clinton and you're negotiating a tax cut not a tax increase. other thing the way weight of public opinion since that level has moved strongly against republicans. look who the public says they're going to blame if we go over the cliff, it's republicans because they see them as having forced the issue last time around, been willing to do this this time around. one reason boehner is grumbly and nervous because he doesn't have any leverage....
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with the fiscal cliff three weeks away, it's absolutely crazy to be talking at that level of nonspecificity. and then, yes, you're right. you're talking about not just holding tax rates where they are, which wouldn't really work for high income people, but lowering tax rates and then making up your spending cuts by kicking the heck out of social insurance perhaps, medicare, medicaid, and social security. this is big time robin hood in reverse without any specifics at absolutely the worst time. >> professor peterson, grover norquist appears to think the president regards himself as a monarch preparing for coronation. take a listen to what he told my colleague, alex wagner, earlier today. >> and he thinks somebody made him king and he's going to have more taxes, more spending, and more regulations. it's a real problem for him. he doesn't have the mandate he thinks he does. so i think he takes us over the cliff because he doesn't -- he's got blinders on. he doesn't see where he stands in the universe. >> the president will take us over the cliff because he doesn't understand his place in the u
with the fiscal cliff three weeks away, it's absolutely crazy to be talking at that level of nonspecificity. and then, yes, you're right. you're talking about not just holding tax rates where they are, which wouldn't really work for high income people, but lowering tax rates and then making up your spending cuts by kicking the heck out of social insurance perhaps, medicare, medicaid, and social security. this is big time robin hood in reverse without any specifics at absolutely the worst time....
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cliff budget negotiations that as of this hour are still focused entirely on income tax rates. there is much more that congress has to solve than income tax rates including the amt, medicare spending, medicaid, and possibly social security. joining me to talk about the things that congress is not yet talking about but will soon be talking about, joeyç reed and chris hayes. chris, the amt has a deadline to it that is sharper than anything else in here, because these 2012 tax returns going to have to be calculated with either this new version of the amt or the fixed version, and that is the difference between it affects -- it adds tens of millions of people getting bitten by this thing. i know that the insiders are more worried about that actually getting fixed than the cliff at this point. >> yeah. when i started covering capitol hill in washington, there were two things that people talked about, which was the amt patch and the dock fix. everyone is like where are we on the amt fix. they adjust the payments and do this thing with the amt. we were asking early on, is there a wa
cliff budget negotiations that as of this hour are still focused entirely on income tax rates. there is much more that congress has to solve than income tax rates including the amt, medicare spending, medicaid, and possibly social security. joining me to talk about the things that congress is not yet talking about but will soon be talking about, joeyç reed and chris hayes. chris, the amt has a deadline to it that is sharper than anything else in here, because these 2012 tax returns going to...
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cliff. treasury secretary tim geithner is on capitol hill right now set to meet with nancy pelosi in less than an hour. earlier today geithner met behind closed doors with house speaker john boehner, senate majority leader harry reid and frank mcconnell. the word he used to describe the overall negotiations, disappointing. >> no substantive progress has been made in the talks between the white house and the house over the last two weeks. listen, this is not a game. jobs are on the line. the american economy is on the line. and this is a moment for adult leadership. campaign style rallies and one-sided leaks in the press are not the way to get things done here in washington. >> democrats today said they're confident a deal can be reached by christmas. but admit negotiations would need to pick up steam. as for senator reid, he says it's now up to the gop to make the next move. >> we're still waiting for a serious offer from the republicans. the president has made his proposal. we need a propos
cliff. treasury secretary tim geithner is on capitol hill right now set to meet with nancy pelosi in less than an hour. earlier today geithner met behind closed doors with house speaker john boehner, senate majority leader harry reid and frank mcconnell. the word he used to describe the overall negotiations, disappointing. >> no substantive progress has been made in the talks between the white house and the house over the last two weeks. listen, this is not a game. jobs are on the line....
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and as you know, this isn't one fiscal cliff. this is six or seven different things that can be taken on one at a time. the middle class and the working class can be protected. the only thing preventing that from happening is the house leadership. and that's a tough situation for the republicans to be in, where they either have to show their true priority, which is to hold the middle class hostage, or take this piece away and be forced to show what they're really standing for. >> but if you look at the fish bowl the republicans are swimming in right now, there are a lot of sharks. you've got mitch mcconnell, who's running for re-election. you've got eric cantor, looking over speaker boehner's shoulder. he'd love to have that job. i mean, how can you get an honest broker out of the republican camp, when all of this stuff is swimming around? you've got the hard right-wing tea partyers out there. you've got mcconnell looking at possibly being in a real tough re-election. and as i said, you know, boehner, is he protecting his backsid
and as you know, this isn't one fiscal cliff. this is six or seven different things that can be taken on one at a time. the middle class and the working class can be protected. the only thing preventing that from happening is the house leadership. and that's a tough situation for the republicans to be in, where they either have to show their true priority, which is to hold the middle class hostage, or take this piece away and be forced to show what they're really standing for. >> but if...
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to go off the fiscal cliff? >> if republicans are not willing to let rates go back up, and we think they should go back to the clinton levels, a time when the economy was doing exceptionally well, then there will not be an agreement. >> let's go to the other side. republican house speaker john boehner also digging in, admitting that talks are going nowhere. speaker boehner also describing the moment when geithner first showed him the president's opening offer. >> i was flabbergasted. i looked at him, i said, "you can't be serious." i've just never seen anything like it. you know, we've got seven weeks between election day and the end of the year. and three of those weeks have been wasted with this nonsense. right now i would say we're nowhere, period. we're nowhere. we've put a serious offer on the table by putting revenues up there to try to get this question resolved. but the white house has responded with virtually nothing. they've actually asked for more revenue than they've been asking for the whole entire
to go off the fiscal cliff? >> if republicans are not willing to let rates go back up, and we think they should go back to the clinton levels, a time when the economy was doing exceptionally well, then there will not be an agreement. >> let's go to the other side. republican house speaker john boehner also digging in, admitting that talks are going nowhere. speaker boehner also describing the moment when geithner first showed him the president's opening offer. >> i was...
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tonight's question, can both parties reach an agreement on the fiscal cliff before the end of the year? text a for yes, text b for no. you can go to our blog and leave a comment. we encourage that. we'll bring results later on in the show. >>> coming up, more of my interview with nancy pelosi. and the republicans so-called fiscal cliff compromise. stay tuned. having you ship my gifts couldn't be easier. well, having a ton of locations doesn't hurt. and a santa to boot! [ chuckles ] right, baby. oh, sir. that is a customer. oh...sorry about that. [ male announcer ] break from the holiday stress. fedex office. [ male announcer ] break from the holiday stress. try running four.ning a restaurant is hard, fortunately we've got ink. it gives us 5x the rewards on our internet, phone charges and cable, plus at office supply stores. rewards we put right back into our business. this is the only thing we've ever wanted to do and ink helps us do it. make your mark with ink from chase. >>> elizabeth warren is close to locking up a spot on the banking committee. sherrod brown of ohio on what it mean
tonight's question, can both parties reach an agreement on the fiscal cliff before the end of the year? text a for yes, text b for no. you can go to our blog and leave a comment. we encourage that. we'll bring results later on in the show. >>> coming up, more of my interview with nancy pelosi. and the republicans so-called fiscal cliff compromise. stay tuned. having you ship my gifts couldn't be easier. well, having a ton of locations doesn't hurt. and a santa to boot! [ chuckles ]...
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is the administration prepared to go over the fiscal cliff? >> oh, absolutely. again, there's no prospect for an agreement that doesn't involve those rates going up on the top 2% of the wealthiest americans -- rr s -- rrm, it'emy 2%, it can't be solved. i think there's broad recognition of that reality now. >> okay, julia. see, this is the problem with men. on sunday morning geithner went on "meet the press" like they're going to cave. >> that's not good tactics for negotiations. >> get him out and get some women -- the congresswoman we had on the other day, the republican congresswoman, mcmorris rogers. sorry about that, really tired, she's fantastic. get her at the table more. get more women to the table because that's just not the way to negotiate. i agree with the administration's position on this. >> the treasury secretary yesterday goes oh, yeah. we can go over the fiscal cliff. >> don't you think that's going to make everybody feel really good, the markets. >> the republicans are doing the same thing. somebody has to be better. >> but the republicans don'
is the administration prepared to go over the fiscal cliff? >> oh, absolutely. again, there's no prospect for an agreement that doesn't involve those rates going up on the top 2% of the wealthiest americans -- rr s -- rrm, it'emy 2%, it can't be solved. i think there's broad recognition of that reality now. >> okay, julia. see, this is the problem with men. on sunday morning geithner went on "meet the press" like they're going to cave. >> that's not good tactics for...
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cliff standoff. he put his foot down on what is negotiable and what is not. >> we have to say the rates on the top 2% go up. and we're not going to get a deal without it. understand the reason for that. it's not me being stubborn. it's not me being partisan. it's just a matter of math. i'm happy to entertain other ideas the republicans may present, but we are not going to cut our way to prosperity or cut our way out of the deficit problem we have. >> so, are we on the verge of something big, something that could really change our politics? joining me now, senator barbara boxer, democrat from california and whip of the senate. thank you for being on the show. >> i love being on your show. thank you. >> if the gop agrees to tax increases, how important might that be in terms of showing they actually are capable of working with the president? >> you know, the way they raised the question, if they agree to tax increases, they claim they're willing to do these loop-hole closers but the difference here is
cliff standoff. he put his foot down on what is negotiable and what is not. >> we have to say the rates on the top 2% go up. and we're not going to get a deal without it. understand the reason for that. it's not me being stubborn. it's not me being partisan. it's just a matter of math. i'm happy to entertain other ideas the republicans may present, but we are not going to cut our way to prosperity or cut our way out of the deficit problem we have. >> so, are we on the verge of...
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that's your idea -- >> mike -- >> away from a fiscal cliff? >> congresswoman, i am a financial illiterate, can you explain to me how you have all encompassing tax reform without taking a look at tax rates? >> well, we have. we believe that we need tax reform. we'd like to look at tax rates, we'd like to look at the loopholes, the tax credits. we want a simpler, less costly tax code for america. that's important for middle class families, important for our economy. that is what's going to help get this economy growing again. but we also -- it also republicans believe it has to include the spending. and the way congress has operated in the past, you know, yeah, we'll increase revenue, but then there's never the protections, never the tough decisions to actually cut the spending, reduce the debt, and that has to be a part of this one. >> fair enough. arianna? >> congresswoman, in your thanksgiving message, twice you emphasize the need for jobs, the need for growth, and then you mentioned the deficit. what do you think we should be doing right now
that's your idea -- >> mike -- >> away from a fiscal cliff? >> congresswoman, i am a financial illiterate, can you explain to me how you have all encompassing tax reform without taking a look at tax rates? >> well, we have. we believe that we need tax reform. we'd like to look at tax rates, we'd like to look at the loopholes, the tax credits. we want a simpler, less costly tax code for america. that's important for middle class families, important for our economy. that...
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if there's a deal on the fiscal cliff, if there's going to be a deal before january 1st, there will be rate increases of some sort. boehner can't be the guy to lead republicans to that, because they don't trust him and looking for sign of a sellout. what he needs to do here, this goes to the end of the month because boehner has to wait and put up the fight and make it look like he's putting up the filt. other conservatives say it's time to go. >> who would that be? >> people on talk radio and fox news and "wall street journal." >> who in washington would lead that? >> i think the tea partiers in the house are responsive to that information network. that's what happened with -- here's the key. last year the payroll tax was coming up for expiration at end of last year. obama said i wanted it extended for 2012. republicans at first said no, and boehner had to say no with them. when the deadline came last christmas, around last christmas republicans started to panic but polls showed people would blame them. all of a sudden those voices said let's not have this fight now. >> he's banking on
if there's a deal on the fiscal cliff, if there's going to be a deal before january 1st, there will be rate increases of some sort. boehner can't be the guy to lead republicans to that, because they don't trust him and looking for sign of a sellout. what he needs to do here, this goes to the end of the month because boehner has to wait and put up the fight and make it look like he's putting up the filt. other conservatives say it's time to go. >> who would that be? >> people on talk...
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the biggest issue that's causing the fiscal cliff is the tax rates going up on the middle class. especially in this time now when we're getting out of this recession. we're seeing some robust growth. we want the christmas sales to be good. if the middle class knew that they're going to keep their tax cut, it would put a smile on everybody's face. and both parties can take credit for it. why won't they do it? there's only one answer. they're obsessed with protecting billionaires and millionaires. it's a sad state of affairs. >> one thing that we've seen in the days leading up, at least through this week, that there has been optimism from both sides expressed by speaker boehner, also by the president, and also republican tom cole, congre congressman, seem to be on board. now we have conservatives like charles krauthammer putting out their pieces saying let's go over the fiscal cliff, let the president do this. then john cornyn, republican from texas, saying apparently the president wants us to go over the fiscal cliff. this is serious business, demanding higher taxes, more stimulus
the biggest issue that's causing the fiscal cliff is the tax rates going up on the middle class. especially in this time now when we're getting out of this recession. we're seeing some robust growth. we want the christmas sales to be good. if the middle class knew that they're going to keep their tax cut, it would put a smile on everybody's face. and both parties can take credit for it. why won't they do it? there's only one answer. they're obsessed with protecting billionaires and...
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let me play it. >> if there is no agreement, then the fiscal cliff has to be dealt with. i didn't see it if they decent this, we do that. i saw it as a statement of fact. it's not a threat. it's a prediction. if there's no agreement, we go over the cliff. let's hope we can have an agreement. >> what do you make of the way she put it? it's not a threat. she said, listen, these are the facts. >> nice little economy you have there. nice little economy you have there. it would be a shame it if anything happened to it. that's not a threat. look, we have to start looking at what happens if we do, in fact, go over the so-called cliff, and what happens is, you know, one thing is we take a huge bite out of the deficit. we do it in a crude may, and there would be immediate attempts to fix it and fine-tune it and take some back. some would probably get through. if you actually want to look at it from a policy standpoint, it may not be the worst possible option to just go over the cliff and then put back in the tax cuts and the spending increases or renewals that you'd like to put ba
let me play it. >> if there is no agreement, then the fiscal cliff has to be dealt with. i didn't see it if they decent this, we do that. i saw it as a statement of fact. it's not a threat. it's a prediction. if there's no agreement, we go over the cliff. let's hope we can have an agreement. >> what do you make of the way she put it? it's not a threat. she said, listen, these are the facts. >> nice little economy you have there. nice little economy you have there. it would be...
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in my view fooling around with the debt ceiling is worse than the fiscal cliff. so you're sort of trading one monster for another. i think it would be, again, absolutely nuts to go there. >> peter, what do you think? >> oh, i don't agree. i think that the fiscal cliff and it is a cliff, on january 1 withholding taxes go up to the tune of $400 billion. >> not necessarily. >> it would have a very negative effect on the economy. according to the legislation they would, jared. >> they would not. >> jared, you have to -- >> let me make a point. the treasury secretary can decide if he or she believes a deal sl imminent not to adjust withholding tables. very important. >> i'm talking about no deal and we go off the cliff. >> we go off and stay off. >> it's $400 billion. we have a lot of things to do with regard to our debt ceiling, and my feeling is no one really believes the united states of america is going to default on its debt even if it lapses. we're dealing with different things. one is real and substantive and the other is psychological. >> i really disagree. >>
in my view fooling around with the debt ceiling is worse than the fiscal cliff. so you're sort of trading one monster for another. i think it would be, again, absolutely nuts to go there. >> peter, what do you think? >> oh, i don't agree. i think that the fiscal cliff and it is a cliff, on january 1 withholding taxes go up to the tune of $400 billion. >> not necessarily. >> it would have a very negative effect on the economy. according to the legislation they would,...
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. >>> fiscal cliff, the thing we are trying to avoid, had $1.2 trillion in cuts but half are to defense. this has $1.2 trillion in cuts but they're just saying make the whole thing cuts to entitlements in domestic spending and not cut defense at all? trying to entice the democrats saying, i don't want you to fall off this cliff so why don't you voluntarily jump off this steeper cliff but don't worry, your fall will be cushioned by lava. >> that is jon stewart's take on the gop's fiscal cliff offer. he's right. we are better off stumbling down the slope like drunken fools than the republican offer out there. here to explain that and why a huge part of the talks making major changes to medicare may be totally unnecessary is jonathan cohn and joins us now. jon, i think that's a good place to start is this. itç seems like all of the discussions about medicare, in relation to the fiscal cliff or in general seems to have an ajumpgs a assumption it's a big program and in dire need for cutting and reform but there's a basic myth at work there of the efficiency of medicare. >> yeah. medicare i
. >>> fiscal cliff, the thing we are trying to avoid, had $1.2 trillion in cuts but half are to defense. this has $1.2 trillion in cuts but they're just saying make the whole thing cuts to entitlements in domestic spending and not cut defense at all? trying to entice the democrats saying, i don't want you to fall off this cliff so why don't you voluntarily jump off this steeper cliff but don't worry, your fall will be cushioned by lava. >> that is jon stewart's take on the gop's...
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for them, $500 million. >>> let's get to the fiscal cliff. politico has an exclusive report that president obama and house speaker boehner had a television conversation. politico characterizes it as, quote, kurt. he wants the white house to move his position on tax rates, but the president won't budge. the president responded to the house speaker according to politico telling him, if he has an alternative plan he ought to put that forward rather than focusing on entitlements. meanwhile the white house will send tim geithner to the white house for meetings with republican and democratic conditioningal leaders. yesterday the president met with big ceo's from goldman sachs, at&t, cater pillar, many who said after the meeting they've merged hoping a deal could be struck to avoid the fiscal cliff. in another meeting president obama said he believes the framework for a deal could be in place before christmas. >> i'll go anywhere and i'll do whatever it takes to get this done. it's too important for washington to screw this up. now is the time for u
for them, $500 million. >>> let's get to the fiscal cliff. politico has an exclusive report that president obama and house speaker boehner had a television conversation. politico characterizes it as, quote, kurt. he wants the white house to move his position on tax rates, but the president won't budge. the president responded to the house speaker according to politico telling him, if he has an alternative plan he ought to put that forward rather than focusing on entitlements. meanwhile...
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they're clearly neither shaken nor stirred by the fiscal cliff. joining us is congresswoman jan chakowski from illinois. >> good afternoon. >> can i thank you for remaining at work given the urgency of the situation. speaker boehner says raising tax rates on the top 2% is unacceptable without serious entitlement reform. and a few hours ago nancy pelosi wondered what exactly he had in mind. take a listen. >> what are we talking about here? what are we talking about when we say restructure entitlements? what does restructure mean? destroy, wither on the vine, voucherize, or does it mean let's work together to make these stronger? >> now, given that speaker boehner doesn't tell us anything, are you able to give us any specific examples of what democrats may be prepared to concede in terms of earned entitlements? >> well, i am not willing to say that we cut benefits at all because we can, in fact, make medicare more cost-effective and bring down health care costs without cutting benefits. we did that, and the republicans hit us over the head with it.
they're clearly neither shaken nor stirred by the fiscal cliff. joining us is congresswoman jan chakowski from illinois. >> good afternoon. >> can i thank you for remaining at work given the urgency of the situation. speaker boehner says raising tax rates on the top 2% is unacceptable without serious entitlement reform. and a few hours ago nancy pelosi wondered what exactly he had in mind. take a listen. >> what are we talking about here? what are we talking about when we say...
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to go off the fiscal cliff? >> if republicans are not willing to let rates go back up, and we think they should go back to the clinton levels, a time when the american economy is doing exceptionally well, then there will not be an agreement. >> but house speaker john bigger is digging in himself, admitting talks are going nowhere. speaker boehner also described the moment when secretary geithner first showed him the president's opening offer. >> i was just flabbergasted. i looked at him and said, "you can't be serious." i've just never seen anything like it. you know, we've got seven weeks between election day and the end of the year. and three of those weeks have been wasted with this nonsense. right now i would say we're nowhere, period. we're nowhere. we've put a serious offer on the table by putting revenues up there to try to get this question resolved. but the white house has responded with virtually nothing. they've actually asked for more revenue than they've been asking for the whole entire time. >> wha
to go off the fiscal cliff? >> if republicans are not willing to let rates go back up, and we think they should go back to the clinton levels, a time when the american economy is doing exceptionally well, then there will not be an agreement. >> but house speaker john bigger is digging in himself, admitting talks are going nowhere. speaker boehner also described the moment when secretary geithner first showed him the president's opening offer. >> i was just flabbergasted. i...
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. >>> up next the senate's top republican latches out loud as the white house averts the fiscal cliff. millions of americans are not finding this partisan fighting so funny. [ male announcer ] it's that time of year again. time for citi price rewind. because your daughter really wants that pink castle thing. and you really don't want to pay more than you have to. only citi price rewind automatically searches for the lowest price. and if it finds one, you get refunded the difference. just use your citi card and register your purchase online. have a super sparkly day! ok. [ male announcer ] now all you need is a magic carriage. citi price rewind. buy now. save later. we create easy-to-use, powerful trading tools for all. look at these streaming charts! they're totally customizable and they let you visualize what might happen next. that's genius! we knew you needed a platform that could really help you elevate your trading. so we built it. chances of making this? it's a lot easier to find out if a trade is potentially profitable. just use our trade & probability calculator and there it i
. >>> up next the senate's top republican latches out loud as the white house averts the fiscal cliff. millions of americans are not finding this partisan fighting so funny. [ male announcer ] it's that time of year again. time for citi price rewind. because your daughter really wants that pink castle thing. and you really don't want to pay more than you have to. only citi price rewind automatically searches for the lowest price. and if it finds one, you get refunded the difference....
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so are republicans going to have to give on raising rates? >> no. we're not, because where the president is focused in on is the affordable care act taxes they increase january the 1st on people making $200,000 or more. the president wants a rate increase coming in january on people making $200,000 or more and go into next year's negotiations on reforming the tax code and he's looking at a single year time period to have three tax increases on the same group of folks, we're saying that's dramatic on the economy, that will slow down development of our economy in a time we're looking to increase more jobs, why would we do this? how does this stimulate the economy and how does it solve the debt? the president's proposal is $160 billion of new taxes a year on a $1 trillion problem. we've got to get to the spending side. >> let me play for you what the president said about this. >> unfortunately, the speaker's proposal right now is still out of balance. he talks for example about $800 billion from revenues but says he's going to do that by lowering rates
so are republicans going to have to give on raising rates? >> no. we're not, because where the president is focused in on is the affordable care act taxes they increase january the 1st on people making $200,000 or more. the president wants a rate increase coming in january on people making $200,000 or more and go into next year's negotiations on reforming the tax code and he's looking at a single year time period to have three tax increases on the same group of folks, we're saying that's...
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>> yeah. >> blake, if there is a deal to avoid the so-called fiscal cliff, could these jobs numbers get considerable better? >> i think so, but it's funny. the republicans are in a bit of a box here. their motivation is to say it's not so good. a lot of jobless people out there. we have a real problem. meanwhi meanwhile, we have fiscal cliff negotiations where the president wants stimulus mechanisms including an extension of unemployment insurance. they're like a doctor who diagnosed you with a severe ill sxns won't sign the precipitation to give you the medicine. they emphasize the joblessness problem, and they don't want to give you unemployment insurance and tell that to someone laid off sleeping in their car. >> with these jobs numbers, had hurricane sandy not struck how better would this report have been? >> a lot of this was construction job weakness. clearly, that will rebound. one of the unfortunate upsides of natural disaster is that you do, whether the states or federal governments do it or insurance companies, you have a lot of infrastructure spending as people rebuild from t
>> yeah. >> blake, if there is a deal to avoid the so-called fiscal cliff, could these jobs numbers get considerable better? >> i think so, but it's funny. the republicans are in a bit of a box here. their motivation is to say it's not so good. a lot of jobless people out there. we have a real problem. meanwhi meanwhile, we have fiscal cliff negotiations where the president wants stimulus mechanisms including an extension of unemployment insurance. they're like a doctor who...
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that's the whole issue here. >> on the fiscal cliff front, no new deals or concessions made public, but "the new york times" reports the dynamic has changed. at the request of speaker boehner, senate leaders and nancy pelosi have been dismissed from the negotiating table. leaving just the speaker and the president to hammer this one out. today vice president biden is hosting middle-class families at the white house, continuing to pressure congress to strike a deal on tax rates below 250,000. yesterday, the president struck a hopeful note with a middle-income family in virginia, while maintaining a hardline on negotiations. >> the message that i think we all want to send to members of congress is, this is a sovble problem. i'm not going to sign any package that somehow prevents the top rate from going up for rate at the top 2% but i remain optimistic we can get something done for that is good for families like this one and that is good for the american economy. >> but the clock is ticking. with just two full weeks before christmas to go. joining me now from washington, the man with all t
that's the whole issue here. >> on the fiscal cliff front, no new deals or concessions made public, but "the new york times" reports the dynamic has changed. at the request of speaker boehner, senate leaders and nancy pelosi have been dismissed from the negotiating table. leaving just the speaker and the president to hammer this one out. today vice president biden is hosting middle-class families at the white house, continuing to pressure congress to strike a deal on tax rates...
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fortunate americans and others to avoid the fiscal cliff between now and december 31st but take what we agree on which is that the middle class tax cuts should be extended and tax rates should not go up for the middle class, let's do that now. the republicans refuse to do that thus far, which is sort of baffling. even some of their senior members like tom cole from oklahoma have said let's take that deal, but let's pass the tax cuts for the middle class and we're talking about making sure that tax rates for 98% of all americans and 97% of all businesses. it's a small percentage of individuals that make more than $250,000 a year that tax rates would go up just a little bit. we had an election, thomas, where americans had a clear choice and they chose and we need to make sure that we think a balanced approach that is fair, that doesn't throw the middle class under the bus and that works mathematically. so far what we've seen from republicans in the house does not work in terms of reducing the deficit. >> congresswoman, we are watching the president on our screen at the business roundta
fortunate americans and others to avoid the fiscal cliff between now and december 31st but take what we agree on which is that the middle class tax cuts should be extended and tax rates should not go up for the middle class, let's do that now. the republicans refuse to do that thus far, which is sort of baffling. even some of their senior members like tom cole from oklahoma have said let's take that deal, but let's pass the tax cuts for the middle class and we're talking about making sure that...
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joining me is bob casey who is moderating the hearing on the fiscal cliff next week. sir, i start with the comparison of the two plans so everyone can see this. the gop plan through closing loopholes and no deductions and rate hikes, as we pointed out as exposed under the democratic plan. the republican plan includes more entitlements through republican reform and then eligibility age being raised than the gop plan including changes of social security not addressed under the president's plan. so these plans, obviously, to the naked eye, they deliver greatly. no matter what con eggs sessions will be made on oert side, explain where you see the sensible center. >> first of all, that plan makes no sense because it forgets about and casts aside the most important focus we've got to bring to this, is what happens to middle income families. that's where the house should pass the legislation. we've already passed. give some certainty. get that part of the deal done. then we can have a debate about upper income folks. the idea that you have a bill in the house that will prote
joining me is bob casey who is moderating the hearing on the fiscal cliff next week. sir, i start with the comparison of the two plans so everyone can see this. the gop plan through closing loopholes and no deductions and rate hikes, as we pointed out as exposed under the democratic plan. the republican plan includes more entitlements through republican reform and then eligibility age being raised than the gop plan including changes of social security not addressed under the president's plan....
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quite frankly, some people in this 2% who call me, they're more worried about the fiscal cliff than they are about rates going up a couple of points." congressman thomas rooney of florida said, "if there are truly real entitlement reforms that are going to be preserve social security and medicare for generations to come, it's going to be difficult for me to oppose higher rates for the rich." president obama and speaker boehner spoke by phone yesterday for the first time in a week. white house press secretary jay carney i find very interesting refused to characterize the conversation. let's bring in congressman chris van hollen of maryland tonight. good to have you with us. >> always good to when with you. >> you bet. are democrats united on this rate issue? we keep hearing it. now that boehner is starting to move a little bit and say that the money is going to come from the wealthy, yet he hasn't identified these reductions, where do democrats stand on rates? is that the bottom line? the rates have to go up? >> the rates have to go up, ed. it's a matter of simple math, as the president h
quite frankly, some people in this 2% who call me, they're more worried about the fiscal cliff than they are about rates going up a couple of points." congressman thomas rooney of florida said, "if there are truly real entitlement reforms that are going to be preserve social security and medicare for generations to come, it's going to be difficult for me to oppose higher rates for the rich." president obama and speaker boehner spoke by phone yesterday for the first time in a...
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cliff? >> absolutely. again, there's no prospect to an agreement that doesn't involve those rates going up on the top 2% of the wealthiest. >> and this ongoing political game of chicken is something one of the chairmen of the debt commission simply calls madness. >> when you have leaders of parties and people from the administration saying i think it will be to the advantage of the democrats to go off the cliff or i think it will be advantage to the republicans to go off the cliff or the president to go off the cliff, that's like betting your country. there's stupidity involved in that. >> willing to go over the cliff, i guess they are but they also don't believe republicans are going to go over the cliff. >> he can win politically but the costs, doesn't you agree, would be tremendous not only to him but to the economy and to our country. >> and we want to bring in and say good morning to congresswoman diane black, a republican from tennessee, a member of the house budget and ways and means
cliff? >> absolutely. again, there's no prospect to an agreement that doesn't involve those rates going up on the top 2% of the wealthiest. >> and this ongoing political game of chicken is something one of the chairmen of the debt commission simply calls madness. >> when you have leaders of parties and people from the administration saying i think it will be to the advantage of the democrats to go off the cliff or i think it will be advantage to the republicans to go off the...
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cliff, he has done nothing to demonstrate it. the position of congressman tom cole, that the party should agree immediately to extend the bush tax rates for americans making less than $250,000 a year is the best of a bunch of bad choices for the gop. >> the g 0 op is boxed in saying it's a terrible position because by default democrats get what they want. a big bargaining chip for house republicans is they need congress to raise the debt ceiling before the end of february when analysts estimate the treasury would run out of options and hit the borrowing cap. no deal is reached. closer to the deadline and today they will argue that's bad for business. help in supporting an approach without drama or delay a. >> we can't be going through another debt crisis, debt ceiling crisis like in 2011. that has to be dealt with. >> the president of the business roundtable has said congress should raise the debt ceiling enough for the next five years to avoid uncertainty. clearly that's something that won't happen. short term spending cuts shou
cliff, he has done nothing to demonstrate it. the position of congressman tom cole, that the party should agree immediately to extend the bush tax rates for americans making less than $250,000 a year is the best of a bunch of bad choices for the gop. >> the g 0 op is boxed in saying it's a terrible position because by default democrats get what they want. a big bargaining chip for house republicans is they need congress to raise the debt ceiling before the end of february when analysts...
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cliff, six out of ten voters in november said the tax rates should go up, how much longer can he afford to politically keep this pledge and he said look, you heard it there, the rates when we close the revenues, loopholes will go up on the rich people. that still is the mindset. what's interesting, is talking to republicans leaving the house conference gop conference this morning, there is a lot of support for speaker boehner. there aren't cracks like there were during the debt limit where he had a faction that was lining up against him wholeheartedly. even after yesterday we heard all the stuff of fallout from the conservative right against his position, that conference this morning was pretty supportive of speaker boehner and seem to be -- say something we say way too often here in washington, d.c., doubling down on the speaker's approach, at least here in early december. >> everyone seems to be doubling down, luke. i mean the idea that now nobodies's moving at all. i thought it was interesting that boehner is adopting the rhetoric kind of fairness saying we're going to -- won't say t
cliff, six out of ten voters in november said the tax rates should go up, how much longer can he afford to politically keep this pledge and he said look, you heard it there, the rates when we close the revenues, loopholes will go up on the rich people. that still is the mindset. what's interesting, is talking to republicans leaving the house conference gop conference this morning, there is a lot of support for speaker boehner. there aren't cracks like there were during the debt limit where he...
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the fiscal cliff? new reports say president obama and john boehner are going mono mono with negotiations. ayman jabbers will join us with a live report. a tea party king maker and now jim demint says he can advances conservative causes effectively outside the senate while he makes a bunch of money at a think tank. brand old party problems with michael steele. and, frack baby frack? maybe. we'll get into the great energy debate with chris hayes when he joins me, joy reid, joan walsh and ben smith, all of that when "now" starts in a mere 180 seconds. stop! stop! stop! come back here! humans -- we are beautifully imperfect creatures living in an imperfect world. that's why liberty mutual insurance has your back with great ideas like our optional better car replacement. if your car is totaled, we give you the money to buy one a model year newer. call... and ask one of our insurance experts about it today. hello?! we believe our customers do their best out there in the world, and we do everything we can to
the fiscal cliff? new reports say president obama and john boehner are going mono mono with negotiations. ayman jabbers will join us with a live report. a tea party king maker and now jim demint says he can advances conservative causes effectively outside the senate while he makes a bunch of money at a think tank. brand old party problems with michael steele. and, frack baby frack? maybe. we'll get into the great energy debate with chris hayes when he joins me, joy reid, joan walsh and ben...
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cliff deal. grover, the first question i have for you is this, your pledge, the pledge that many republicans have signed on to, opposes any and all efforts to increase marginal income tax rates and opposes any net reduction or elimination of deductions and credits unless matched for dollar by further reducing tax rates. closing loopholes and ending deductions would seem to increase the tax burden that americans are paying to the federal government. given that, do you support the proposal put forward by john boehner? >> well, because the proposal is significantly amorphous, you could get those revenues through economic growth and we don't really have things nailed down, i don't want to talk about a hypothetical, but there is a danger that when you put revenues on the table, even revenues through economic growth, if you grew at 4% a year, reagan levels, instead of 2%, french levels or obama levels, you would net $5 trillion in additional revenue to the government, you could pay down all of obama's
cliff deal. grover, the first question i have for you is this, your pledge, the pledge that many republicans have signed on to, opposes any and all efforts to increase marginal income tax rates and opposes any net reduction or elimination of deductions and credits unless matched for dollar by further reducing tax rates. closing loopholes and ending deductions would seem to increase the tax burden that americans are paying to the federal government. given that, do you support the proposal put...
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the president is answering questions about the fiscal cliff. how does that work? >> well, it's kind of interesting, andrea. we know that the white house has adopted a campaign-style way to sell the need to raise tax rates and generate more revenue from the wealthy. this is kind of in keeping of -- they have a couple minute video sent to reporters. this is another way to try and drive conversation via social media and amp up pressure on lawmakers to get republicans to capitulate. this is kind of one part i would say of a multi-front effort to adapt some of the tactics that clearly work for president obama in the campaign imported over to policy. they tried this with health care, andrea, back in 2009. it didn't work all that well. let's see if this operation works better. >> the other big twitter aannouncement today wa was @pontifx. the pope is going to start tweeting as of september 12th. >> he already has more followers than you and i and has been on for one day. >> it's amazing how things happen. >> god. >> back to the white house, jay carney said during the brie
the president is answering questions about the fiscal cliff. how does that work? >> well, it's kind of interesting, andrea. we know that the white house has adopted a campaign-style way to sell the need to raise tax rates and generate more revenue from the wealthy. this is kind of in keeping of -- they have a couple minute video sent to reporters. this is another way to try and drive conversation via social media and amp up pressure on lawmakers to get republicans to capitulate. this is...
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cliff. it's time for the president, if he's serious to come back to us with a counter offer. >> the president told a virginia family on thursday he won't back down on taxing the rich. >> just to be clear, i'm not going to sign any package that somehow prevents the top rate from going up for folks at the top 2%. but i do remain optimistic that we can get something done that is good for families like this one. >> the rebels gain on assad raising fears he might use chemical weapons. that was enough to frighten the russians into talking with hillary clinton about a political transition. >> the united states stands with the syrian people in insisting that any transition process re -- result in a unified democratic syria in which all citizens are represented. the future of this kind cannot possibly include assad. >> a tragic turn of events in london. the nurse that first transferred that prank call to duchess catherine is found dead. david axelrod shaves it all off on "morning joe." >> joe scarbor
cliff. it's time for the president, if he's serious to come back to us with a counter offer. >> the president told a virginia family on thursday he won't back down on taxing the rich. >> just to be clear, i'm not going to sign any package that somehow prevents the top rate from going up for folks at the top 2%. but i do remain optimistic that we can get something done that is good for families like this one. >> the rebels gain on assad raising fears he might use chemical...